Podcasting has a long reputation as an inherently altruistic art form. With its direct lineage to public radio and the goodwill that stems from its DIY ethos, it’s been easy to hold podcasting in high esteem as a bastion of community building. But as the medium has continued to grow, most recently via the proliferation of video clips, it has become increasingly clear that podcasts — especially the many successful conservative-leaning ones — can also sow division. Many podcasters, however, continue to actively sort through the mass of slop, jargon, niche online communities, and subreddits to, if not bring unity, at least get to the bottom of things. 

We spoke to three such podcasters — Garrott Graham of “Search Engine,” Zach Stafford of “Vibe Check,” and Grant Irving of “Panic World” — about standing their ground during these divisive times, in which “news isn’t doing the job,” as Stafford said, adding, “it’s not enough, so people need a place to talk about it.” 

ON THEIR OWN MEDIA CONSUMPTION:

Graham: I start my day with “Up First” or “The Daily” if the titles catch my eye. Occasionally, someone will recommend a newsletter to me that sticks (Read Max, Deez Links, Feed Me, Garbage Day). I’ve really been enjoying the Financial Times recently, but I’ll regularly scan the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and Semafor.

Stafford: I listen to NPR shows. I listen to Crooked [Media] shows. One of the places I check every morning is Facebook, because I grew up in Tennessee, and I like to see what the more conservative people in my life are posting and thinking and how they’re getting information. And then I do my own fact-checking. 

Irving: I used to be a narrative series producer, which made listening to narrative series really hard, because it just reminded me too much of work. Now I get a lot more of my news than I used to from newsletters and websites. Hell Gate, I really love. It’s nice to get a local news perspective. Then I read the guests-of-our-show’s newsletters.

ON THE PROLIFERATION OF VIDEO PODCASTING:

Graham: The problem is, the more engagement you get on social media, the more you want to make stuff designed specifically for social media. And because social media tends to reward extremes, now you have a set of incentives influencing your work that is probably making the work more extreme, less honest.

Stafford: My big fear with the proliferation of video is the clipping of shows. People aren’t watching the full conversation within the context in which it is being presented. And I see that really fail people quickly. I think people need to read more, watch things more, listen better, and the clips are hurting us.

ON CONSERVATIVE-LEANING CONTENT:

Stafford: I listen to far-right colleagues in the SiriusXM Universe. I’ll listen to Megyn Kelly sometimes. I’m obviously a very liberal, progressive person, but I do pay attention to what the right is doing, so I know what we’re up against every day in this media ecosystem. 

Irving: There are maybe six episodes where we haven’t mentioned Joe Rogan, but I’m not going to listen to three hours of “The Joe Rogan Experience.” I can look at the YouTube transcripts of the episodes and pull out what I need and the context around it. For my purposes, the fact that we live in a clips world is really good. 

ON CONTENT MODERATION:

Graham: Social media internet, while often useful and occasionally hilarious, is pretty poisonous right now. I know enough to know that its fraught relationship with content moderation has something to do with that. The more podcasts can remain distinct from social media, the happier I’ll be as someone who makes and listens to them.

Stafford: I would love to see a world in which we are all held to at least some editorial standards. I [tell a lot of up-and-coming YouTubers who are doing news] that they should get to a point where they start investing in an editor or a resource to make sure that they are fact-checking. We really need people to be responsible about the stories they’re sharing, because they have a tremendous impact.le

Irving: I would love to live in a world where we think about what moderation standards we should have across the internet. There definitely should be more of them. If you think what people are putting out is bad or stupid, thinking about creative ways and funny ways to say as much is good. And conceding ground is bad.

These interviews have been edited for length and clarity.